Shocking evidence of race discrimination in recruitment procedures have just been published by the government.
As part of an investigation, the Department for Work and Pensions sent out nearly 3,000 job applications to employers in the private, public and voluntary sectors. They found that for every nine applications sent by a white applicant, an equally good applicant with an ethnic minority name had to send 16 to obtain a positive response.
The names that were used for the purposes of this research included: Nazia Mahmood, Muhammed Kahlid, Mariam Namagembe, Anthony Olukayode, Alison Taylor and Andrew Clarke.
I wonder how many of you think you have suffered discrimination in the recruitment process or know someone who has? There has long been anecdotal evidence that employers discriminate, but now have some cold, hard facts. What do you think should be done to prevent this kind of recruitment bias?
The public sector vacancies included in this study - which usually required standard application forms, did not discriminate at this initial stage of recruitment. This suggests that discrimination might be reduced by the use of standard application forms.
But would that remove incidences of discrimination completely? Can we ever rid the hiring process of discrimination? From my point of view, I think it's worrying that after 30 years of the Race Relations Act, this kind of prejudice in recruitment still exists and people are simply being judged by their name.
As part of an investigation, the Department for Work and Pensions sent out nearly 3,000 job applications to employers in the private, public and voluntary sectors. They found that for every nine applications sent by a white applicant, an equally good applicant with an ethnic minority name had to send 16 to obtain a positive response.
The names that were used for the purposes of this research included: Nazia Mahmood, Muhammed Kahlid, Mariam Namagembe, Anthony Olukayode, Alison Taylor and Andrew Clarke.
I wonder how many of you think you have suffered discrimination in the recruitment process or know someone who has? There has long been anecdotal evidence that employers discriminate, but now have some cold, hard facts. What do you think should be done to prevent this kind of recruitment bias?
The public sector vacancies included in this study - which usually required standard application forms, did not discriminate at this initial stage of recruitment. This suggests that discrimination might be reduced by the use of standard application forms.
But would that remove incidences of discrimination completely? Can we ever rid the hiring process of discrimination? From my point of view, I think it's worrying that after 30 years of the Race Relations Act, this kind of prejudice in recruitment still exists and people are simply being judged by their name.
See my name Tanangui Kwah and my qualifications - Bsc. Economics, Msc. Industrial & Financial Economics, Msc. International Management (Sweden) and Mphil in Management (Exeter). Diverse work experiences in various companies in Europe and very multilingual in European languages. What do you think I am doing now? Unemployed now for more that 1 year. I go to organisations and see lots of incompetent people there then I ask myself what have I done wrong in looking for work? Oh! Then it strikes me I am black and I would have been cleaning or doing so strong manual labour. Employers prefer to go abroad to the USA, Canada and Eastern Europe and to seek white people to employ while ignoring highly qualified black people here. Well, that how its and that is how it will be – nothing will change we black people should just me intelligent and united enough to start our own creativity rather than rely on while employers.
When ever i fill in an application and it gets to the part of the form detailing equal oppurtunities, from my point of view even though i have an english name i still have to tick the box declaring im from an ethnic minority back ground.
The moment a perspective employer looks at that they can discriminate almost immediately and there is absolutely nothing that can be done, the only hope i have is that il be employed purely because of my skills and experience and not because of my ethnic back ground.
The bottom line is even if prospective employees see you have an english name they will see you have an ethnic back ground when looking at your equal oppurtunities form so they can descriminate either way and you would be none the wiser.
How is this racial discrimmination?..has anyone thought it saves time to input smaller more common names?..or employers want people to be able to speak English fluently? so they syphon out the stronger candidates..
your average windows user does not have Muhammed in there spell checker..neither there vocabulary
and
I'm sorry but I've been unemployed and I sent out over 90 applications in two towns,I didn't hear back from one, I am now at university studying engineering..
Obviously something wrong there, maybe its because I'm 23 and don't drive do we blame my old car garage I worked for not enticing me to drive of course not, a bit of thought and subjecting real life situations instead of pointless pieces of paper being wasted would go along way, this country is riddled with bureaucracy gone mad..
Its time to pull a finger out England we were once a glorious place to be live and see, its a f**king Dive now...
It is after all their country but it is as well their loss!
That's a rediculous comment to make. Over the last few months I have grown to realize what a horrible world we live in, whites hating blacks, blacks hating whites. At the end of the day we all breath the same air so nobody is more superior at all regardless of race, colour or creed.
My advise is that if you feel so strongly against the White race and have such a credible list of qualifications, why don't you start up your own business specializing in what you're good at and what you know? It seems rediculous that you blame everyone else for your misfortune, take some action, grow a pair of balls and do something about it. You seem to expect it to be handed to you on a plate just because you've got a few letters after your name. My friend it's not the colour of your skin or your name, it's your attitude.
I think that in the recruitment process ethnic backgrounds should be excluded. It is often said that the reason for doing that is to ensure equal oppertunities. But many think and feel otherwise. In addition I personally feel that as long as a candidate meets the relevant requirements, ethnicity should not be a question. In addition what about minority ethnic groups like myself? who is not white British but have British names.It is a shame that in an advanced stage like this we are still allowing these trivial matters to haunt us. I do hope my comments do not fall on deaf ears thanks for your time.
It isn't just race that's being discriminated against. 54 years old, high flier since about the age of 4, multiple industries, run rings round novice and experienced graduates, energy and drive of a 20 summat, not a sniff at any of the jobs applied for at a rate of 0.9273 each day.
Government already knows the score as they track who goes to their job sites and doubtless many others, but as with so many wrongs in the public domain, they are in a total state of denial - except of course for when it comes to filling out Xs!
Good news is that the numbers of jobs advertised is definitely on the up . .
This works in reverse as I can testify from my experience. I was getting nowhere with applications to local government and civil service posts and a friend of mine joked that I ought to pretend I was asian, or better still an asian girl, especially in my home town.
Before trying this out I went to the local government centre and counted in each department the number of employees visible to the public and then the numbers of asian employees. I then used the Census figures to gauge what the proportion should have been. I got a huge shock; the number of asian employees was three times larger than its proportion of the declared population.
So, after over sixty applications with only two interviews you can imagine the mixture of surprise and anger that I felt when both of my next two applications yielded interviews. The look on the panel's faces was priceless.
I can't speak for the private sectorbut I can say that in some towns and cities in this country there is an undeclared, and probably illegal, affirmative action approach to employment.
I believe there will always be some form of descrimination when employing someone - Generally as a recruiter you have an idea of the sort of person you would like to recruit, for example team fit, good written/spoken English and bad recruiters assume that some people with forgiegn names can not speak English very well, a good recruiter will however have a conversation with the candidate before making that decision. I disagree with Tanangui however, as I worked and recruited for a leading bank and we use to relocate people from different countries around the world rather than employ someone who was English or white, in fact the majority of people I recruited while there were not English or white! In fact it angered me that we weren't offering jobs to the jobless in this country (black or white). Even to the point where permanent contracts were offered to candidates that only had temporary visa's! I have now been unemployed for a year and have on average been apply for 7 jobs a week and not been considered yet! Is that because I am a women - Well if it is thier loss! I won't be banging on about descrimination! Just life.
Here we go again : I dont get work cos I'm Black. Could it be that you just don't interview well or have a poor attitude?There must be many people (black & white )who are in the same position as you:intelligent & highly qualified ,still searching for employment Anyway whether it's racial or age discrimination , how can it be proven? Start living in the real world and remember : it' tough for EVERYONE
I was a selfemployed until the end of 2001 and since Jan.2002 I have been unemployed and cannot get a job any where in the country, I needto say that I have ben applying for jobs eversince (god be my witness), I even had to write to the employment minister Rt honorary Tony Mcnulty in july this year but still have'nt recieved a reply.
I am in a dilemma as I don't realy know wether it's the name or my age as I am 47 years old, but it has a graet negative effect on the family at home.
I really hope we all together could come to a positive outcome.
I know what you mean, but only just. Why should I bother stuggling with the way you write English? Ask you tutor or the best lectturer on you course to explain what's wrong with your rant. I merely too old to find employment at 57. Good luck.
Nigel - we are talking about a situation where people from other cultures aren't even getting interviews. Besides while it is tough for everyone, imagine it on a point system; really hard for a white person in a recession. Harder again for a white woman. Harder again for a black man. Even harder for a black woman etc. If you start adding gay or with disabilities, it gets even harder.
Affirmative action is supposed to address the imbalance caused by companies refusing to even shortlist Aisan and black candidates.
Lewis: not having a degree or a driving license will count against you in job applications. I have a degree but no driving license and it's stopped me being able to get several jobs i'm more than qualified for. If we're a dive now it isn't because of immigrants, it's because we're a service nation. All actual skill and talent reduced to being able to suck up and bow a little lower. The one thing that would solve our economic crisis is bringing industry home.
I have qualifications for the job I want to be in but I never got it. So I settled for any job just to get in work..and this is after so many interviews..
Maybe it is because I am an asian...just my thoughts
discrimination is getting even worse with the new immigration laws.the employers don't understand them so what they do;they don't try to know if you are eligible to work in here.they just see that you are black and decide on that basis.
I live in Ethiopia.I am a B.A degree graduate in English and M.A degree graduate in Education.I have applied several times to gulf states for the post of an English language teaching position but I could not get a reply yet. What do you think the problem is about?
Discrimination of one sort or the other exists, live with it.
You get disciminated because of tattoo's, piecingd, hair colour, attitude, writing skills, pronunciation, using slang words, age, religion and then we have colour.
Why is it with all the other discrimination that only the latter is really addressed and the racism card is a very dangerous accusation. I have been accussed of it twice, simply becuase I then have to prove I was not racist not vis a vis.
I am highly qualified and luckily I have never been out of work at the age of 50. However, when I look for a new position, I do not moan at rejection, I ask for feedback and try to be positive about the short comings.
No one can drag you down unless you let them! Stay both positive and above the racism card and put rejection down to experience, but always look for feedback. This is the only way to improve.
this discrimination will never end nomatter how many complaints are forwarded. i know of a position that wasn't filled for months even though some qualified black people had applied. they kept being told the post had been taken only to see it readvertised within weeks! i personally applied for a job that was advertised because i had the qualifications they were asking for but was told it had been taken only to see it still being advertised for 3 more months!! hey, being white doesnt make anyone superior, we are just different in the same way.
It is not just the colour of your skin or your name that is discriminated in England; it is also religion and background. I am white, but i am also Jewish, I have been bluntly called a killer and murderer when I applied for a job. And it wasn't now during a hard recession it was over 6 years ago, and it has stuck with me. I am always extremely cautious when I send me CV out and worried that I will not be judged for my skills, talent or my experience, but for the mere fact that I was raised in another country, even though I am a citizen of this country.
Well I hear this things happen, but as an applicant, I always refuse to let such stop me from applying for the role I believe I can assume effectively.
If at the end of the day, I don't get the position, then it's the employer's loss...because I know what will be mine will be mine...
The government didn't need to waste so much money on researching discrimination in employment...I could have told them that for free...please let's move on to better things.
I am not supprised at the finding, Britain still lives in the dark ages, no wonder the U. S. A is moving well ahead of U K in every area of life, look at President Obama ruling in U. S. A. unlike his predecessors, in the republican party, from Ronald Regan to Bush junior, all they know is to fight wars, but since the Obama the black president came into power their less tension in the world.
The truth of the matter is that it is time to have black prime minster in the u k, I do not mean a mixed race one, a proper black person, only when this happen, we will beging to see changes in the attitudes of whites people towards black people.
White people know black people have the capabilities, some of them just do not want to allow or respect it.
I am a job seeker, I am a Chauffeur by profession, if you have a job opportunity for me, reply to me by email.
God Bless The United Kingdom of Great Britain. Thank you.
Poppycock i think , the employer has the wright to employ who they want. race race race ... that's all you hear the employer is " scared " to employ the british citizen in case they get taken to tribunal from other races. I'm a carpenter/joiner with 20 years experience I'm 38 born and been here all my life been out of work 6 months WHY because the employer doesn't want to be seen as "race discrimination" and because the other races are prepared to work the same job for less money.what i think is BRITAIN is to soft.
There are arguments for and against this of course. I once found myself the victim of discrimination due to the fact my name wasn’t something such as Mohammed or Pablo and I wasn’t from an ethnic background. Too often these days companies, be it from private or public sector, want to be able to ‘tick all the boxes’ and say at their board meetings – we employ staff from here, there and everywhere.
A few years back I went for a job whilst working for a local council, along with 3 of my other colleagues. Our actual day to day work couldn’t apparently be counted – it was all down to the interview (internal recruitment gone mad again!). At this point I was the highest processor from the four of us, averaging 20 more cases a day than my closest rival for the position.
After the interviews had been done, we had to wait until the next day until we found out who was getting the permanent position and who were to remain temps. The successful candidate turned out to be the least favourite in the running for the position – an older woman who was clearly not the best at her job, she done roughly half the cases that I processed each day and considerably less than the other two applicants (but again this was not to be counted, it was all down to the interview rather than who was more capable of doing the job). The strange thing was... this woman, although a very nice and pleasant woman, not very great at her job, was of South American descent. During the interview she was so nervous; she started talking in Spanish to the interview panel (none of whom were actually fluent in such). Yet this woman, who they knew fine well was hopeless at her job, who started speaking in Spanish various times throughout her excellent interview, was given the job over three younger, better, more capable British applicants for the position?
Was this due to the fact she was better or down to the fact they could tick a box saying ‘we employ somebody from this specific background’ – I’ll leave that for you to decide but I know my feelings on such.
More recently in my current workplace, now in the private sector, I have witnessed something I felt to be very prejudice towards what were once this country’s original occupants.
A colleague of mine, who was a Church of England Christian, born and bred, was forced into working Sunday shifts even though he felt this was immoral and was denying him the chance to attend his regular Sunday sermon each week. He was told he could attend the evening service as opposed to the morning service he has attended for years, just so he can now go to work every second Sunday morning to afternoon. My colleague, for fear of being driven out of his job, has not challenged this, although he would, I’m sure, have a good legal case against this.
The thing that really disturbs me is the fact that this company is supposed to be all for equal opportunities, they like to promote the fact they also have people from all walks of life under their roof. They have other members of staff, from other religions, who get shift changes or time off, for their certain beliefs, Ramadan etc. without an eyelid being batted? They also have let some members of staff change shifts to attend college or university for further education – yet this company will not adjust a shift for a British Christian and insist he works through his beliefs every other week?!
In this country all too often these days they like to bend over backwards to promote these ‘equal opportunities’ and help others ‘fit in’ yet they forget about the people that were here to start with. The people who made this country once great are now the ones who don’t get a fair chance because they don’t tick enough boxes? Who are really the people suffering the most from discrimination?
I am black man, have bachelor degree in accountancy, part qualified accountant and ten years experience in Banking Operations and three years chartered accountant firm.One year unemployed today.
Even I can't get filling job.
There are arguments for and against this of course. I once found myself the victim of discrimination due to the fact my name wasn’t something such as Mohammed or Pablo and I wasn’t from an ethnic background. Too often these days companies, be it from private or public sector, want to be able to ‘tick all the boxes’ and say at their board meetings – we employ staff from here, there and everywhere.
A few years back I went for a job whilst working for a local council, along with 3 of my other colleagues. Our actual day to day work couldn’t apparently be counted – it was all down to the interview (internal recruitment gone mad again!). At this point I was the highest processor from the four of us, averaging 20 more cases a day than my closest rival for the position.
After the interviews had been done, we had to wait until the next day until we found out who was getting the permanent position and who were to remain temps. The successful candidate turned out to be the least favourite in the running for the position – an older woman who was clearly not the best at her job, she done roughly half the cases that I processed each day and considerably less than the other two applicants (but again this was not to be counted, it was all down to the interview rather than who was more capable of doing the job). The strange thing was... this woman, although a very nice and pleasant woman, not very great at her job, was of South American descent. During the interview she was so nervous; she started talking in Spanish to the interview panel (none of whom were actually fluent in such). Yet this woman, who they knew fine well was hopeless at her job, who started speaking in Spanish various times throughout her excellent interview, was given the job over three younger, better, more capable British applicants for the position?
Was this due to the fact she was better or down to the fact they could tick a box saying ‘we employ somebody from this specific background’ – I’ll leave that for you to decide but I know my feelings on such.
In this country all too often these days they like to bend over backwards to promote these ‘equal opportunities’ and help others ‘fit in’ yet they forget about the people that were here to start with. The people who made this country once great are now the ones who don’t get a fair chance because they don’t tick enough boxes? Who are really the people suffering the most from discrimination?
In my view, discrimination at work is knitted into the very fabric of this society, and, to an extent, institutionalised. I am a highly qualified and experienced individual (MBA,CIM,Nursing,Midwifery,Research,Project Management Sales, Social Marketing, Marketing & business development; worked for International Pharmaceuticals,International NGOs, etc experience. Very determined and self driven in nature. But since I moved to this country having married a British national, I have had to downgrade my aspirations to deal with this reality. If a British national spent just a year in my country as a less qualified volunteer, on return he would gain more credit for the much less credible experience than what I have gathered in my whole working lifetime. In contrast, my experience is considered by employers in this country as irrelevant, and my skills intransferrable! Local experience is "essential".. I tried everything voluntary placement (Ouch!.. it cost me a hell lot more than I could afford!) I grafted for organisations for no or very little pay, even that didn't earn me the jobs I wanted. Not even a testimonial in cases. After tens of interviews (the preparation for which is hardwork) I then resorted to self employment. Even that, is not working as contracts are granted on a similar basis!! My newly acquired name seemed to work in my favour. However , all my passport & certificates are in my maiden name, which seems to give the game away, at the interview stage. Guess what? I was even advised to "improve my accent, & acquire the "BBC" accent to improve my chances of getting a decent job! I do have a nursing job now,but guess what? I have less nursing work experience and qualifications than I have in Sales, Marketing, Research,and Business Development.. God bless my adopted country! Their loss not mine? ;)...It is also to some extent my loss. It defeats the purpose of ones lifetime of hardwork.
I am very much in support of what Emmanuel said here below:
"White people know black people have the capabilities, some of them just do not want to allow or respect it" which is sad.
This is exactly the case and only those who fall victim to this know and feel the pain of it. If you are among the lucky few congratulations but to think that there is no discrimination, it is really not true and you need to think again please.
Looking at this positively, I do agree with Tanangui who says
"nothing will change, we black people should just be intelligent and united enough to start our own creativity rather than rely on white employers". The question is, will this help us all and generations yet unborn? We must remmember that not everyone are talented enough to own businesses. Some people's calling might be just to serve in the public sector in any capacity and would want to grow and contribute to what they love doing. What happens if they are not given the chance to exercise this burning desire? Despondency, despair and eventually laziness.
Let there be some measures in place to monitor job recruitments to minimize discrimination. One of such measures could be, ensuring there is at least one minority person in the interview panel.
I find that perhaps I am being discriminated against as I have been unemployed from full time work for 2 years. The reasons I get is we thought you were very confident and professional, but we decided another candidate was more suitable or we feel that you do not have the relevant experience, you do not have any recent experience and the such like. I feel discriminated against because I am a woman, living on my own, my own house, being single and being english and not forgetting my age and disability. No one wants to employ me or so it seems, but I refuse to roll over and allow these excuses to stop me from getting a job.
you mentioned the race relations act ,so can someone please explain why some large multinationals are still asking for your ethnic origin whilst applying online?
The truth in my experience is that if you are black you have to work three times as hard as a white person to get the same opportunities in the UK work place. I am currently employed but I have since found out I am over-qualified for this role but not having much luck trying to get into roles that are better suited to my skills because my ethnic name and origin doesn't quite match what the employer is looking for. The people who think these statistics are just excuses are probably 90% white and have never been on the receiving end of discrimination, therefore they do not have a clue what it feels like.
Really lewis that sort of language is not needed and the analogy with your car is a rubbish point what the article is trying to say is that if you have a foreign sounding name you are more likely to be rejected than an english sounding name spell checker has nothing to do with it as your name is written in english and has it ever occured to you that the english sounding name may not speak english that well but the foreign sounding name does? It should be based on your experience and qualification not your name.
TO Lewis:Just because they have foreign names does not mean that they were not born here and thus can not speak english!!!!
Generally though having general application forms would not help if its the name that is the problem as you would have to put it on the form!
MAybe the public sector are more monitored by gov etc are less likely to discrimminate at the early stages?
Nigel-The article was reffering to the initial stage of application
so nothing to do with how they interview or attitudes
I agree though everyone at present is having problems getting work.
Been unemployed for a yr and a 2 months before I found a temporary job picking (where majority of people english second language) and prev worked in mortgages but this is the only work I have been offered
My personal oppinion is that also not all people from Eastern Europe could find job. I am from Eastern Europe I living in UK 4 years now and I still can`t find proper job. I am thinking also mothers are lots of time discriminate as well.I have 2 years old son and I can`t find job. I am feeling that I am victim of discrimination as well. It doesn`t meen that if you have a child that you are not good for job. I think that goverments are not intresting for people who has familis and do nothink ti improve. It is really unfaire treat mothers like this!!!!
To Afsana, RS, Emmanuel
Ok you didnt actually read what i wrote?
I will spell it out for you Employers are lead on the assumption that you dont have English as your mother tongue..This is not racism it is a way of narrowing down whom will suit a good a particular role.
Im so sorry RS would you like me to be a little more articulate or would it be too much of a mouthful?
This is typical you already dived in and pretty much wanted to call me a racist, what is this about white people 'hating' on blacks? surely it swings in circles and the best of times? Im sure you must of had a bad day and wrote anything Emmanuel because i think you will find Black - White relationships are probably at there peak at the moment, and moaning about a Prime Minister and wanting to be like the Americans is the last thing we probably need you moan about a Black 'a real Black Prime minister' maybe there just isn't anyone good enough 'YET' like we haven't seen a female push the doors wide open at White hall like Maggie did so long ago.
I hear someone say about being Jewish and being called practically a killer, that is racism, do something about it, you need a more positive approach to life if you think that is why you don't have a job.
I'm maybe thinking sentence of the day "think before you speak people"
I wanted to add my personal experience too. I am originally from Italy and grown up in Rio until the age of 11 and now a UK citizen as I have been living in this country for the past 7 years. Well, I can fluently speak 4 EU languages, got a degree and a post graduate master too in marketing and I never had a problem in finding a job within 2 to 3 weeks of looking and I admit to be white... this until now or even better until last year. I have been looking for a job since last May as the company where I used to work had to make many redundancies and I was getting ready to my turn and in fact it came by the end of June... It took me 5 full months and more than 1.200 applications (I am not joking, I have kept all my applications on a dedicated file) and I have faced racial discrimination my self believed it or not! I wanted to step a little back from sales roles and come back to be a PA or work in a support role and I have been often told - from recruiting agencies - that employers would rather "prefer" English mother tongue for such roles!!! Now as you can see I can pretty well write in English ( I have studied it for 25 years!) and of course I can speak fluently too but my name says it all that I am Italian and apparently and sadly in this recession it has been an issue together with the fact that I am 36 and a mum, I have noticed too. I have once dared to ask about working times and I have been told that the boss does not like "clock watchers" well I would like to know were the boss would suggest to "park" my son after 6pm when the nursery closes!!!
So guys don't complain too much, in some ways we are all in the same boat! I have been many times tempted to tick the disability box for instance, just to have the chance to get an interview!
Good luck to everybody, by the way, I have finally got an offer -which of course I have accepted- but I had to give up £5000 from my annual salary expectations and market value.
I am white british.
to say that a 'foreign' sounding name means the person is not english, born here, is racism, visibly displayed. this kind of profiling damages, and is what the employers are doing.
to say that one shouldn't employ 'foreigners' (good grief I can't believe I'm having to say 'foreigners' just because of name spelling, anyway, in order to save time with spell checkers etc is NOT a good reason not to employ somebody, lordy where does this come from.
someone with a 'foreign' sounding name, may be english (I suspect you're assuming someone with kind of name is black, asian etc as well, tsk tsk) and speak both perfect english, as well as other languages... I am so dissapointed by the whole thing, to the proof that has been produced (lol @ the person who said, go and get some proof... erm, that's what we're responding to? a ratio of 9 to 16, that is so sad) and then by some of the inept, badly spelt (yanno some here saying it's ok, seem hardly able to spell themselves? hmm) and thoughtless comments, we are talking about PEOPLE.
Ok,my point of view, for what it's worth. We could all take a long hard look around I think, if our species doesn't integrate better, and group together better, we will not survive)
To those trying to get jobs (black, white, English, French, German, Brazilian, Russian, Indian...and *etc* )
Good luck, keep trying!!
Maria
I admire your perseverance, how easy it is for people to think the only way to live is from state benefits, your written English is probably better than mine, ha..
A significant problem is Employers are trying to do the right thing in many different areas, i read an article posted on directgov.uk back in june, what was being set out to happen was that the Government made a U-turn in which they would re establish British jobs for British people, which sounds all fair and good, because before these guidelines jobs could be posted in Poland Lithuania Etc as soon as jobs became vacant, but now employers have to advertise jobs through jobcenterplus or just a substantial amount of time here before they can look in Europe, so you could sympathise with Employers for trying to do the right thing but it is such a mine field, anyone or group however diverse we could all try to be there is always going to be a someone whether they're white brown black blue pink or green (Tiger land) hurt in the matter.
Its agreed were all struggling just don't make yourself feel your being singled out.
HELLO PEOPLE I AM PAKISTANI GUY AGE 20, BORN IN THE UK. I WAS UNEMPLOYED FOR 2 YEARS AND THEN WAS OFFERED A WORK PLACEMENT FOR 4 WEEKS IN PRIMARK STORE THROUGH JOBCENTRE.
I WASNT HAPPY DOING WORK EXPERIENCE FOR 4 WEEK'S.ON THE LAST WEEK I WAS OFFERED A PART-TIME JOB. I WAS GLAD
THAT I HAVE A JOB FINALLY. ALL THE HARD WORK PAID OFF.
DON'T GET ME WRONG PEOPLE SOME TIMES WE HAVE TO DO IT THE HARD WAY TO GET A JOB NOW DAYS.
I HOPE ALL YOU BRITISH CITIZENS
GET TOP JOBS GOOD LUCK!
To Lewis
So what you saying is ethnic minorities cant speak fluent english,that is discrimination itself. I have asian friends and they speak perfect english like me and you.
What the article is saying in the opening paragraph is that from equally qualified people whites are prefered.
Remember the key word equally qualified, it didn't say uneducated people
I have lived in the U.K all my life and is a British Pakistani with an asian name, i was earning £40,000 a year but was made redundant last year. A lot of companies in my town stopped hiring due to the credit crunch but with my persistence i did get 3 jobs all by applying on-line, though the jobs wasn't to my liking i still got the jobs by just posting my C.V on-line with an asian name. I do agree with a lot of the comments before and having been on the front line when it comes to employing someone discrimination does take place and you can't argue with the studies that have taken place.
Companies at the moment can pick and choose who they want to employ because so many people are chasing the same jobs so you must get one step a head of everyone else and that means getting your C.V right, that means getting the first 2 paragraphs spot on as that's all they have time to look at, if you have a unusual name or a long name, i would personally shorten it and if your C.V gets accepted explain why you did.
We can all start moaning why i didn't get that job or this job because there are still a lot of jobs out there, i've had 4 since getting made redundant.
Finally if companies are discriminating against names then it's there loss not mine and personally i wouldn't want to work for those as they will most likely go under..
Dear Tanangui Kwah, I understand how you feel! Although my situation is different, sort of! I receive discrimination when I apply for a job because I have a disability. I don't tell employers any more, about my disability! Good luck,
My name is Andrew and it hasnt helped me get a job, particlarly in the public sector. My ex colleague who I trained got a job within weeks of redundancy last year, her name Kajal.
I think there have been some very valid points discussed here.
I am 23 and I have a very good degree and a vast amount of experience in my field of work.
I cannot find a permanent role and I am having to work freelance. I have applied for over 2000 jobs now.
I went to job seekers to see if they could provide me with help to get more training and I was told that I didnt meet their criteria beause I wasnt a single parent, I was over educated and I wasnt in a minority group.
They made this decision without asking if I had any dependants and didnt know of my education.
The system is wrong, everyone should be given an equal opportunity for help, work and a chance to live life as you see fit.
My advice, dont rely on the governments help for anything. If you want to succeed then you have to work hard and do it yourself.
Well I read all this in amazement! How the heck can government departments work out the statistics they have produced? In some areas of the UK you can go years without meeting anyone other than 'White British'. I'm in London and I can assure everyone that I visit the JobCentre, the hospital, the council offices, use public transport and I am shocked to see so many 'non white' people employed. By taking this into consideration you could say it's reverse discrimination.
While we are going on about this poorly presented government rubbish, let's change it a little to 'age'. I was made redundant, I have worked for 40 years and now 18 months later after 600 jobs applications and only 10 interviews I am still unemployed! I have so much to offer but alas I'm too old (but they cannot say that!).
Michael
It is hardcore recession time and not a single household is not feeling the strain of it, well...except "the guys of the bonuses" of course.
But honestly, this should not be a wall in our face, this should not discourage one from being patient and active in his jobsearch, it might be your turn tomorrow. After all, people out of work get benefits, and this is not something one can deny. Maybe an uncomfortable money but still better than nothing, we all have a part to play in this crisis.
If we all think our own way, Britain will be a disaster. I am twice engineer in two different disciplines, with a career of nearly 19 years in Electronics, but unfortunately i was made redundant a year and a half ago and there isn't one agency nor employer who didn't receive my CV, but i won't give up. Mind you i am not that old.
Hope by describing my situation I helped alleviate someone's worries.
I am in the same position as many of you - unemployed seeking employment - but would like to make a few comments.
Lewis - your comments had an inflammatory and derogative tone that was not helpful. Also, you might like to use a dictionary to identify the difference in meaning and use of "there" and "their". Since, even as a native English speaker, you still appear somewhat confused.
To the others, I too have JSA hoops to jump through, so I find it convenient to have a spreadsheet one sheet per month, one line per job application and dropping those that are over a month old but I have a computer and not everybody will.
Please remember that the anti-discrimination laws are there as a guideline to employers to try to ensure that they behave fairly but that despite the emotional ups and downs, self-doubt, anger and worry - it is up to you to make what you will of life. Labi Siffre's song "Something inside so strong" is something I hold dear. Whatever your strengths and weaknesses, abilities/inabilities, colour, gender, sexuality, ethnicity - sock it to them with an "I AM WORTH SOMETHING - KNOCK ME DOWN BUT I WILL GET UP AGAIN - I WILL GET A JOB!"
Enough of the rant - good luck everybody - I'm off to jump another hoop - hopefully successfully ;0)
I personally think that everybody is discriminated against, no matter what colour skin you have or what your background contains, you just have to read the comments on here to see that everybody is discriminated against.
I personally feel discriminated against because of my age, 20. I feel that I am being overlooked because people may think I'm not serious, as much of a hard worker etc as people who are older than me.
What annoys me is surely the government are discriminating against younger people when I look at the benefits system.
Me and someone who is 26 both got laid off at the same time, both doing the same job, both in the same situations, but because I'm under 22 I get £15 pound a week less from the government and also I only got half a week in redundancy for every year I had been working yet he got a week. No difference in our jobs or lifestyles yet because he's older he gets more money/help.
It goes to show its just life and you need to just deal with it and get on rather than bitching and moaning about it.
Dear Sirs
I am highly motivated and enthusiastic person seeking career development and opportunities for new skills. I graduated at one of the best universities in Poland at the Department of Law .This education has given me significant background in administration field.
I am highly skilled in offices procedures and standards:
- deal with customer’s queries by phone
- ensure information is distributed to all staff
- mange room bookings
- general word processing and clerical duties
- distribution and co-ordination of incoming and outgoing mail
- provision of general clerical support to colleagues.
Working in a range of different environments I gained excellent interpersonal skills. On my current occupation as a customer service assistant I resolve many different problems and queries related with direct contacts with clients
Before the graduation I worked in many environments even warehouse, however I gained there administration experience as well.
Although my native language is polish I have good spoken as well as written english and basic russian and german. According to the above one of my most significant features are multilanguage skills, which would be essential in contacts with foreigners.
I have good numerical skills, focus on details and ability to calculate using Excel.
I’ve used these skills to up to date, create databases, invoices and sorting documentation offices.
I can assure you that my motivation and confidence with administration background would input positive impact in my role and create significant progress inside the company.
Yours Sincerely
………………………
Katarzyna Wiezowska
Just wanted to add it is NOT mandatory to enter ethnic background information.
Job-seekers do have to specify if they are eligible to work in the UK and under what auspices, which can be used to make discriminatory decisions, but these are separate issues.
Admittedly if you have a name which is obviously not of British origin it doesn't matter whether you complete the ethnic background section or not... If you are unlucky enough to have a bigot review your application then you are (from the article) less likely to get the job.
Additionally if you are willing to take less pay than the next guy for the same job then I don't think your ethnicity comes into it... Money talks... To qualify my statement - if 2 people with exactly the same skills but from different ethnic backgrounds (and I include "whites" and "non-whites" as those with ethnic backgrounds), apply for the same job then the person who gets the job will be the one who wants less money.
It is obviously unfair that prejudiced selection goes on and in Utopia we would all be judged on our experience and merits but the reality is racism, bigotry, nepotism all exist, always have and probably always will.
We as job-seekers have to accept that 2 dynamics have evolved a) the number of applications for the same role have increased exponentially and b) where one used to be able to get a job which was say a 70% fit to their skill-set, the current climate means that the candidate has to be a 95% fit for the role if not 99%...(I don't believe there is ever a 100% fit but that's because I don't believe anything is perfect...)
I like the comments made re: persistence - we need to keep trying, we need to stay strong in the belief that we will succeed and we need to get better at making ourselves the best applicant for the jobs we apply for. Perhaps we even need to accept the 20% wage cut... Things will only get harder and whatever one can do that will make a direct impact on the roles one can apply for then this is where energies should be focused. If nothing else then psychologically by focusing on improving oneself one can take solace knowing improving themselves is in their control.
As a 36 year-old male British Citizen of Indian Origin, born in Zambia, without a trace of an accent and 16 years' experience in Marketing I have in the last 6 years been made redundant 3 times. Some may argue I'm just not very good at my job, however the reality is I chose to work in hi-tech which by default is a volatile industry (but lucrative when it works) and now am in a situation where I can't find the roles I am best suited for as they aren't being recruited for and can't go into new areas because I am considered over-qualified. Over-qualified seems to be synonymous with "job-hopper" and there for a bad investment...
We all have our crosses to bear and we are all skilled in our own ways, my view is that we just have to get better at expressing these skills and articulating why we are better than the next guy - that is the biggest impact of the recession. Recruiters and employers have become more specific about their requirements which unfortunately also seem to change on a daily basis... I can't remember the number of times I have applied for a role and then been told the specification has changed and they now want someone with a different skill-set...
It is a buyers' market and they can demand what they want and as such we job-seekers as the sellers have very little say - take or leave it is pretty much the credo.
As mentioned by one of the other participants we have to make the first two paragraphs more relevant, better articulated and all the more obvious to why we are the best for the role.
Where I used to spend perhaps 30 minutes making an application this has now gone up to a couple of hours to get my CV and cover letter immediately relevant with the impact required.
The rest - bigotry, prejudice, lazy selection processes have always been there.
I wish all of you the very best in your job search and as mentioned by someone else in this thread it only takes one application to be successful at which point the unsuccessful applications mean nothing.
Strange, I was convinced it was because I was white that I wasn't making interviews...
I think it may have more to do with the fact that your written communication and spelling isnt that great!
Now then... I am white (English) European, male, 54, ex-military electronics/communications engineering technician, ex- Nortel Enterprise Engineer (redundant creditor), Instructor and QA trained and qualified and ... experience and ability goes on.. I am also have a Turkish wife and am a revert to Islam.
So which one of those facts causes me the most aggrevation?.. AGE.
I spent the last three years of my Nortel employment as mentor/trainer to Graduate Electronics / Communications / IT Engineers from Turkey, UK and Mexico. Because the company knew the value of my input from the employment records they kept and my managers input.
Try getting that accross in a CV or covering letter.
The initial problem is not discrimination as such, its software discrimination.
People dont read CV's, software does. Applications designed to pick out key words or phrases. In there is a scoring pack. The more hits, the higher the score. Unfortunately, there is also scope to score on the personal level. Religion, Race, Gender, Age, Marital Status, Salary Expectation, previouse employment sector, union membership, university name. All of these can have a plus or minus effect. A blank, where the applicant censors the response based on applying discrimination rules for themselves, will result in a "failed to complete" and in some cases, an automatic rejection by the application. Some applications can even be rejected because the word count is too high/low.
So alot of very careful effort has to go into the post applicatuion to beat the software.
Just take a look at some of the jobsite offers. They contain lists of keywords that YOUR search are designed to find, just to ensure the broad spectrum of applicants get to see the post. The specific jobsite is trying to ensure the post is filled from an applicant from their web engine, and thus get the commission payment. In years gone bye, when I first started applying for jobs after college, EVERY application I made recieved a response. An acknowledgement of reciept as a minimum. My qualifications and references meant I found my first post within 5 days, and that included return post and interview.
But now, older, wiser, settled, more experienced and broader sphere of influence... I dont even get an acknowledgement from the recruiters, let alone a rejection notice... My wife got one though, a "sorry but".. as an e-mail. (She is 27 and a BSc).
There are more people chasing the positions than there are vacancies for, there is another out put of graduates going after those positions as well. Cheap labour with no experience and low salary expectations is the pool being fished. People who know the ropes, have knowledgeable expectations once employed are not first choice... mold the youngster and if he wont, let him go and get another one. Its the same the worls over. It's why outsourcing support and call center tasks goes to India or Mexico. $6000 pa for a Graduate in India to do IT Help Desk telephone support.. How much for the same role in USA or UK? And of course, outsourcing is contractual.. can close it anytime if a cheaper alternative is found.
The corporate attitude, the automated candidate filters, the ignorant recruiters (outsourced agencies of course).. all of these are the true discriminators. An interview is a luxery employers can not afford.. unless the applicant pays for the business class travel and hotel expence of the interviewer to Monaco to come and see them ... lets all get into politics or welfare and make our fortunes...
I am British and whilst I agree we may all suffer one or other forms of discrimination during our lifetime, it is not the same for all of us. There is no mistaking the multiple levels of discrimination faced by some,in terms of race, gender, ethnicity, and other variables. Bad luck and being in environments predominantly of a type /certain groups may also pose problems for an individual from a minority group.
However I do not think it is that simple as an explaination.(It being more socio-economic and political) I think today in many places fairness has gone out of the minds of most people especially leaders of communities and organisations.
The Job/ recruitment process should be a platform to secure the best candidate based on an assessment of Skills, qualifications, experiences as required of potential candidates for the job, in order to do that job. The problem today is, we have people from all over the world completing in this climate for jobs. Where ever they are from Europe, America, Asia, Africa or Australia they are all in competition for jobs, often directly competing against those in Britain both white and non white,( British). Often by preference the deselected/ousted, may be British and born in UK, but presumed by visibility / ethnicity different. If you are British surely no matter who you are, you should have some precedence . Unfortunately too often inherent rascist attitudes, long standing institutional racism has maintained this system especially within predominantly aligned / based areas and selection remains biased towards particular groups.
Of course Britain has always been proud of its Anti - racist legislation. The truth of its effectiveness/ quality lies more in how the system uses it to manipulate the demands of equal opportunities requirements. Unfortunately in my own experience, although proving it is another matter, such manipulation occurs and is negative and misused to fulfil EQ criteria.
In 30 odd years of my own rolling employment difficulties, having worked in the public , private, statutory, community sectors, my experience has been nothing short of soul destroying, with several job losses and destruction of 3 careers. I am today in my mid 50's again unemployed whilst my colleagues who were very effective at looking busy are still in jobs even though they are in their late 50's and 60's and just waiting for a retirement date. In most of my job situations I was bullied , blamed, and discriminated against before the final curtain fell, with HR tools being used to legitimise the process to make me look ineffective, troublesome, with my conduct being monitored or controlled, as a means to oust me.
In terms of Human rights well, that's also another matter when it comes to the erosion of dignity/ self respect or rights of citizens.
White British in the UK do seem to be more the minority these days.
There are more ethnic minorities globally and if everyone wants to live and work in England, then maybe these figures are correct.
I, a single white British female, 33 years old, no children and a sole mortgage. I am an engineer, whom recently lost my job in the recession. Currently I am working as a cleaner for £5.73 and struggling surviving on a max of 30 hours a week, not entitled to working tax credits or any other benefit, and believe me, at my place of work, and in every department, I AM A MINORITY, they ALL in receipt of benefits.
It is the government who directly is to blame, not the employers as they already have the ethnic population of UK working for them in all departments and they know most of all that if your name is of ethnic tone, you are more likely to work for a lower wage because in their eyes you could all be living in one room or have benefit help so to speak, where as the Paul, Alison, Jennifer and Edward's of this world all have a White British culture to maintain and live in single occupancy homes with a mortgage and without possibilities of benefits from he government.
If you believe this is racist, you are mistaken, I am far from, just try being in my position, I feel like I have lost everything, so do not moan, you could be white!
What a fascinating piece of research by the Department of Work and Pensions. Good for them that this work was carried out in the first place and we can now see the trends more accurately.
It was equally fascinating to see the comments posted above. What employment traumas many have been through.
I suggest that we need significant and dramatic changes in recruitment practices:
1/ First of all that Equal Opportunities Monitoring Form needs to go, either completely, or, by agreement with the employer it should be retained by the applicant until at least 3 weeks after the recruitment process is complete and the new candidate is in the job.
2/ That once and for all recruitment process/interview should be dispensed with more often. In its place should come a series of Work Placements to try to identify the best person for the job. How do employers know who is best until someone does the job? One can see the problems from the employers point of view, but there surely are significant problems with once and for all interviews too?
3/ Post interviews, employers should be ready and prepared to give structured and constructive feedback in all or most cases. Detailed notes are often made at interviews but where do these end up? Is there any real purpose for them? Detailed feedback would help candidates with their realistic job searches, also confirm or deny for them that any discriminatory practice had taken place at the recruitment stage. If employers knew they were subject to this scrutiny, they may approach recruitment more positively, rather than more evasively.
4/ There needs to be much more work sharing. Such work-sharing needs to be reinforced by employment law. This concept probably does not exist in the law at present. Many more cost effectively run job-shares for example would at least share out the work that is available.
5/ In terms of on-going employment practices, there need to be forms of 360 degree appraisal in place most of the time. This means that almost all employees and employees get a kind of rounded on going scrutiny of their work and attitudes to work.
Perhaps this kind of approach would help to stamp out those discriminatory practices that so many have experienced.
Elizabeth Oakley
To be fair it’s your English or proofreading fail you.
It’s a gross mistake to say prospective employees when I believe the prospective employers would be the right line in your comment.
I’m white but not english and educated although not to such high degree as yourself.
I’d like to know your opinion on the fact that I saw a job offer from publicly founded mainstream London university where it says clearly that because the minority is represented equally the recruiter is asking indirectly for discrimination against others.
It’s called in western world a positive discrimination.
Vicious circle I guess.
Look, lets get real. Racism typically rears its ugly head during a recession and minorities DO get the worse deal. Have we forgotten the disorders of the inner cities of 25 years ago, with disproportionate unemployment being the root cause etc, etc. But, that is still no reason for us to give up.
As a Black, UK born (who experienced the tumultuous 80's), educated man, I am still able to pick and choose what I do and when. How, you ask? Well, I don't start with the premise of anyone owing me anything! Times are tough for everybody. We need to be creative, independent and bold. Taking that lesser paid job to get a foothold may help, re-training, educating and developing new skills undoubtedly will too...and, wait for it...acknowleding that it is everyman for himself and that as employers are generally very lazy recruiters, means everyone has to be really focused. I know it's easier said than done, utopian even, but I am not letting 'cretins' deny me a living nor am I going to blame everything on someone else or an 'ism'!
The irony of all of this is that if we ALL pulled together this recession 'pain' might actually be short lived and we could come out of it tougher and more focused. Smart thinking - not blaming it on Johnnny Foreigner - will get us through - just as bashing whitey and praying for a 'BME PM' is a waste of precious time and energy!! Keep hunting!
Looking at your qualifications I would autotmatically think that you had no direction and weren't sure where you wanted your career to head. You have some great qualifications but are you interested in finance, management or international management? I think you need to emphahsis strongly in applications where you want your career to progress, how your qualifications help and what you could bring to the position. Hope this helps! Liz
I agree that in some cases people discriminate against job seekers due to their race... or age.. or sex. However I think it is also wrong that people are turned down because a company has an ethnicity/sex/age quota to fill! Is the government suggesting white british job seekers be overlooked because a company doesn't appear to employe enough people from an ethinic minority??!! People should get a job on merit not on race - from either side of the argument!