The internet has brought instant gratification in many shapes and forms: Shopping orders that arrive the next day, albums you can play within seconds of buying them, immediate answers to pretty much any question you can think of. But is it now all too easy?
One of my main issues as a recruiter is the scattergun approach jobseekers use to find themselves a job on t'internet. Gone are the days of seeing an ad in a newspaper (are you old enough to remember this reader?!) taking the time to print off your CV, writing a letter with their name and address at the top, addressing an envelope and posting it. This process was lengthy and tedious, but at least we remembered which jobs we'd applied for if only because of the sheer hell we had to go through to do so.
Let me point out here that I know the market is very tricky, and you jobseekers may feel panicked to a certain degree. This is very understandable if you are out of work, have a mortgage and bills to pay, and maybe even a family to support. So you may feel pressured to apply for every job going, regardless of whether its something you really want to do. It's better than being in the dole queue, right?
Unfortunately this approach is unlikely to help you get a job any quicker. Recruiters can easily find out whether your interest in their company is serious and genuine - and when you have to ask which job we're calling about, it's a dead giveaway.
So, some good advice for you jobseekers out there is this:
1) Only apply for the jobs that you really want.
2) Keep track of all of the jobs that you apply for - use a spreadsheet, word document, diary, back of a fag packet...
3) ...on which, draw four columns: Date, Title of Job, Name of company, and a brief description (bit of a squeeze on a fag packet)
4) Keep the job specs to hand; print them off and file them away or save them to a dedicated folder on your computer.
So next time a recruiter calls you, hopefully you'll know exactly who they are, and what job they're calling about. I have said it before and I will say it again - first impressions count.
'So next time I call...' Oh, come off it. You will not call because you do not have any jobs. I apply only for vacancies with 'NO AGENCIES PLEASE' mark because I know that there is a job behind the lines, not just a self-obsessed supa-diva polishing her CV database.
When you send dozens applications a day, there is no time to keep logs, they are too time-consuming. The other advantage of internet is searchability, and when I receive a response to my application (usually through e-mail, NO AGENCIES PLEASE have no problem using it), it takes seconds to find the original ad.
Very well said Jane B. That is exactly my experience so far.
I sort of agree with the previous comment, tho there's no need to be rude about it, we are all in the same boat!
Trying to get a job in the current climate is playing the numbers game, it's no different to selling. You have to fill up your pipeline.
I generally only apply to jobs I know I can do and take note of the MUST HAVE's in ads which are helpful. Even so, having 30 years work experience I have applied to 1000's of jobs since my last contract finished in May and have so far had less than 20 calls, 5 meetings with recruiters and 2 interviews. If I only applied to jobs I REALLY wanted the numbers would be much worse - we have to adjust our expectations accordingly.
I have been out of work for four months, and yes i have applied for quite a few jobs, which i file away. I have applied for jobs just for the sake, with the same attitude of "the more chance i will have", I have had many interviews, but just dont seem to be getting anywhere.Thank God for the internet application process, this has saved lots of time. I would have been lost without it, as i do remember sending letters of application through the post and i still do.
Well, as an out of work Project Manager come Excel expert, I think I'll just have to make a file that automates all that.
However, in this kpi driven madness, job seekers have to satisfy the dole that they are looking for work, and presentation of such a log does just that.
BUT, that same kpi madness and government view on how to search for a job means lots of people wasting lots of time.
Quantity takes precedent over quality during recessions.
I have been out of work for ten months and part of my jobseekers agreement is that I keep log of all my applications and in many ways its a good idea because I know who I've applied to, and whether or not I've had any response at all, which in 90% of cases I havent. How would a recruiter know how serious I was, I've thought long and hard about each application I've made, and the only time I had to ask the question you've posed in this blog is when the company name wasnt in the original ad and the company themselves had changed the job title...so who is moving the goal posts here. The companies themselves are making it ever more difficult to be taken seriously and alot of the jobs that are advertised are old, or non existent. I could name one company that has used the same ad all year, such is the length of time I've been looking.
I would like to know, which idiot introduced competancy designed interviews. This form of interview technique dooes NOT allow for the candidates personallity to shine through, it does not allow for recruiters to learn what a person could bring to thier business either.
"Give me an example of when etc" How does that get across the experience one could offer, or what benefit to thier organisation you would be!
well i been looking job since april 2009 .i have no income at holl.because i was self employer last 10 years
I have only been searching for work for a couple of weeks, but I totally agree with the author - if you don't keep track of your applications, there is no way you will ever be able to know what is the job they are calling about, or which jobs you should follow up on today. A spreadsheet with a column for follow-up date will do just that, especially made easier if you use the autofilter funcation.
cheers Ed
I agree with JaneZ. Most agency jobs don't exist, they just want your CV to add your previous employers to their list of companies to target. I send out a standard letter and CV to agencies and spend much longer on direct applications. Agency jobs go onto a spreadsheet, direct applications are printed and filed. Why do I do this? because I'm much more likely to get an interview with direct applicaitons than through agencies!
I've been told by recruiters, the Job Centre, outplacement companies, life coaches and more that I'm doing all the right things and I have a very good CV, but have been without permanent employment since Jan 2009.
What's bugging me is the way people mis-communicate. No wonder we're in such a mess.
I try to follow-up an internet application with a phone call to make sure the CV rises to the top of the pile, especially if I really want the job. If it is a job I could have done twenty years ago and now have to apply to because we will need to pay the bills again this month, then I can't remember one boring Marketing Assistant job from another.
The Job Centre says very patronisingly "At least you are getting interviews", but they are still cutting off my JobSeekers Allowance next week because my six months is up.
I go into each interview thinking "This is going to be the one" when I would not have looked at it a year ago. How do they expect us to get a job in six months?!
It takes a lot out of me to see people I knew from work around town and I put on a brave face and sound as up beat as possible about the next interview.... I don't want to look like a loser or else they will start to avoid me. I have lost my job, I am trying not to lose my self-respect.
The replacement job I was offered at two thirds of my original salary is being advertised again, and I am in two minds about applying for it.
I spent 3 months applying for 30-40 jobs per week online, barely tweaking my cover letter and CV each time. Then the phone rang, and I was offered an interview for a job I didn't apply for, but through one of the very first agencies to receive my CV. I got the job.
Point is, that the "scattergun approach" was indirectly the cause of my job success. Before that phone call, I would estimate at least 100 different recruiters, 20 of which were agencies, had received my CV. Only one of those offered me an interview for a specific role. Had I not have sent my CV out to that agency 3 months ago, I would still be unemployed.
I agree with the view against the scattergun approach. But on the other hand like one person said, when you apply for dozens of jobs, it becomes way too time consuming to file away or keep records of each. I've applied for over 200 jobs in three months. I didn't start off that way. I was very confident at first and concentrated on the few that I wanted. I did all the homework, research on the companies, records, phone calls etc, etc. I applied for a few over the internet and also posted out my CV and cover letters to 10 companies. But after only 2 responses for over a month, I was forced to evolve to using the scattergun approach. I double checked my CV and wrote out a cover letter template. I then adapt the cover letter to the particular job I am applying for. Since doing that, I have sent out more applications than I can keep track of. Over 150. And thank all the gods there are (and the inventor) for the internet. I couldn't possibly have done all that without it. I also couldn't possibly have dreamt of doing it had we not been in the current situation that the job market is in. So far, I have got over a dozen responses with 5 interviews.
So the question is, are there situations where the scattergun approach may work for some? Although one could argue that if everyone used that approach, then employers would be inundated by a deluge of CVs and applications for every job they advertised for. So logic dictates that the scattergun approach wouldn't work even only for that reason. But if anyone else was in my shoes, what would they have done?
Does anybody know where I can get a bigger Scattergun that fires off more Engineering applications per second ?
Most of the jobs advertised on the internet don't exist as we jobseekers are all finding out.
Totaljobs could do there bit by actually checking the validity of some of the vacancies they quite happily take money to advertise.
I remember seeing an advertisement some time ago which stated that only around half of all job vacancies in the UK were actually advertised. Can anyone corroborate this ? Also, if this is correct, how are these unadvertised positions actually filled ?
Given that there's a scarcity of jobs and the longer you're out of work the more you find you're lowering what you want out of the job, mine is a scattergun approach. You can't afford to be too picky.
For example, whereas once I wouldn't have considered a job based on lower salary, commute distance and nature of the employers business, now however, such an approach could leave me on the job queue for longer. So what do I do instead?
Widen my job search engine criteria so that although it takes me twice as long sifting through job emails each day, I come across one or two I wouldn't normally have found. And that's all it takes to make a difference between being unemployed and working.
Some job search engines are frustratingly abysmal though. Search for a job role in the UK and you're given jobs from abroad and just about any job on the planet except the one you wanted. Perhaps there's an opening here to startup a company to produce a decent job search engine?!
There are many, many job sites out there, and I subscribe to daily emails from about a dozen of them, especially the ones that trawl jobs from other less well known sites.
Coming back to the main point, I'm a big fan of holding a log of ALL conversations I've had, with whom, and when. Otherwise how else can I keep on top of the couple of dozen job applications current at any one time? Also, it shows the recruiter that you're organised and with good time management skills. Excel is fine, but I just use a text editor for speed!
It is easy for somebody who hasn't been unemployed for months to advise against the scattergun approach. It's also very easy to panic and apply for everything. But we need money to pay the bills. The worst case, which I am dreading, is that I will get a menial job and then miss out on a really good one, as I will have taken the menial one, CV will look bad, and missed chance of more interesting one. I want to downsize on jobs, but employers think I'm not interested as had high posts in past. Have they never heard of work-life balance? I've relocated to Bristol, and may just have to face it - London is where the jobs are.
The same could be said for aptitude tests. I did one last year for an investment management company based in the City, and scored over 80% - I was informed by the agency who arranged it that this was a very high score, that the pass mark was 60% and only around half the candidates who sat the test actually passed it. So I was invited to attend an interview, which I duly did, and was rejected on the grounds that I was over-qualified! (could that be a euphemism for too old ?!?). So whatever this firm were looking for, technical expertise was clearly not one of them, and sitting the test, not to mention attending the interview, was a complete waste of time (not to mention the £50 odd in train fares which it incurred, none of which was reimbursed). All the more galling when my career history was laid out in great detail on my CV and any recruiter with half a brain could tell whether the role was too junior for me....but maybe I'm crediting recruiters with more intelligence than thay possess ?!?
Why are there so many recruitment agencies still? There seems to be no real jobs, only re-advertised jobs. There is a lot of competition for jobs so why are the so called urgent vacancies not being filled? The agencies make surprised patronising comments when told how long one has been looking for work and infer there is something wrong with you. I feel that I am a failure as I am having no success and cannot see a reason other than my age and that I live too far away from where the work is. So much for working until one is 70, I would like the chance to work at all. There seems to be no hope if one is out of work for anytime so the only resort is to bombard the internet with applications. The slow down in interest indicates that the agents have set their filters to bin the long term unemployed.
I agree with you 100% Neil. These competency based interviews and
over-staffed HR Departments have made an absolute joke of the whole recruitment process.
I have just reached the 13 week stage of signing on and only just recived my first payment since I had to wind my business up in the summer. Those who work in the jobcentres just push bits of paper around for the real clueless individuals in government and are oblivious to offering many of us with qualifications and years of experince any helpful advice!
A friend of mine offered me some wise advice recently and said that "if he was in my shoes then he would not turn up to any interviews where he knew there was going to be a competency based test involved." I have attended a couple which I feel were a total waste of time, but have also declined attending many recently (although I obviously have to keep that quiet from those who push the bits of paper around for those in government quiet).
I have been advised by two different career/job finding consultants, both gave different jobsearch advice but both agreed on not using the scattergun approach. However, if I only applied for the jobs I wanted I would violate my jobseekers agreement and lose benefits. I will continue with the scattergun aproach because the other way doesn't work for me.
Competency based interviews are simply a device to compensate for a lack of skill/knowledge/intuition on the part of the interviewer.
Reply:Thank you for information and my Jobs Guide. Anyway,I have to working as soon as possible for my self life & my family. Totaljobs will be informed to me many jobs only all advertisement jobs to be introduced. If the company proceed jobs will not be successful in case,I have to as immediately change other recruiter offered jobs, limmited next 13th-Nov.
Best Regard
Shunji Manabe.( I will leave 04-Nov)
Return to Japan,Later 4day Re-submitted from my house in Japan.
This is useful information for job seekers> It is indeed a good idea to get to know your employer.
Without being arrogant, the advice given in this article I would have thought was a 'given' that most people pro-actively managing their job search would undertake a log and a reasonably careful review of their ability to do the job. Having been made redundant 4 months ago and undetaken a methodical approach to job-hunting, the bottom line is there are no jobs for the amount of people seeking work and regardless of being extremely dilligent and conscientous is job seeking endeavours, its like extracting blood from a stone presently from so called recruiters, not to put too negative a spin on things :)
What is worse is when you feel obliged to talk yourself down (ie: delete that degree qualification from your CV) in order to get the menial job. Can't help wondering what percentage of the population, come the end of the recession, will be doing jobs they neither particularly want, enjoy, or are simply wrongly or over-qualified to do?
The ‘scattergun’ approach to applications just reinforces the vicious circle of too many applicants, and no responses from agencies or employers. If the employer/agent has 100’s of CVs to sift through, then there is a real chance that the good ones - i.e. you and me - will get lost in the sheer volume, and miss out.
1000’s of applications will not help, other than increase the frustration, and panic levels. Especially if this just resulted in 2 interviews as reported above. If you only select the jobs you can really do, you could well still have had the same result.
In my own case, I’ve been out of work and actively searching since the end of March. I only apply to those jobs that I know I can do. Try putting yourself in the role of the employer – would you hire yourself for that role? My statistics are 57 applications (all printed out/filed), 5 interviews and shortlisted to the final stage 3 times.
Where we can help ourselves is to widen the search to identify more of the right jobs. I’m in IT Marketing, so I take in Technology as a whole. I also look at different job levels, interim work, consulting... but only those I know I can deliver 110%.
Unfortunately this is new territory for us – the last recession was newspapers and letters (I know, I was job hunting through that one as well). The internet changes the rules. We can find more stuff very easily, but equally it’s too easy to apply indiscriminately. Just a click of a button.
New rules/guidelines are necessary – but we all have to abide by them.
Why have no recruiters joined this discussion forum ?
As they are the job-finding experts, I would greatly value their input on the current job situation, especially in view of the somewhat negative comments they have attracted from some of the individuals here..........
I agree with not adopting a total scattergun approach and to only applying to jobs that you think you want and can do. You can't begin to know until you get that illusive interview.
I'm a Senior Project Manager with 36 years expereince in Banking & IT who was made redundant in May for the 5th time on the spin over the last 14 years. I have applied for 1,059 jobs since March (when I suspected I was to be cut) and I have had just 1 interview for a local job at 3/4 of the pay I was previously on. My bug bear with the situation is the total lack of feedback one is given from agencies and recruiters. If this was just down to the current situation then I'd say it was purely the volume of applications being received by recruiters. The role I was interviewed for had 784 and although I made it through 2 interviews to the last 3 over a seemingly marathon two month period I missed out. Unlike the Olympics, no prize for 2nd or 3rd. I digress! The lack of feedback is purely down to poor quality of process by the Agencies. If they did bother to give some constructive feedback then they would, over time, get a better selection of applications from candidate but basically they don't really care. Their initial objective is to get 10 CV's top submit to the Recruiters Account Managers for him/her to pick 3-5 to put to the Recruiter.
Of my 1,059 applications I've been told that just 33 have been passed on to the Recruiter thats only 3% from which I've got just the 1 interview thats 0.1%. The conclusion was that it must be my CV so a while back I reluctantly was drawn into responding to one of the continuous solicitations offering a review of my CV which then followed with a professional rewrite and an unevdienced circulation direct to selected agencies and recruiters which cost £399 and has proved totally futile.
As with another person I'm just about to lose my job seekers allowance and have started to spend our mortgage redemption money to live on. So with seemingly no job prospects, I'm now looking at trying to change my career or take on a franchise, whilst I still have some money, but this isn't easy either but then in this day and age, what is?
Why have no recruiters joined this discussion forum ?
As they are the job-finding experts, I would greatly value their input on the current job situation, especially in view of the somewhat negative comments they have attracted from some of the individuals here..........
regards
kamini rawat
and how many times have the recruiters actually come back to you much less reply to your application?
Thank you for having the time to write about this subject. I really appreciate it. I’ll stick a link of this entry in my website.
Good points…I would note that as someone who really doesn’t comment to blogs much (in fact, this may be my first post), I don’t think the term “lurker” is very flattering to a non-posting reader. It’s not your fault at all, but perhaps the blogosphere could come up with a better, non-creepy name for the 90% of us that enjoy just reading the content .
That's a good piece, constantly nice to understand a lot more about boating
I can't figure out how to subscribe to the comments via RSS . I want to keep abrest of this, how do I do that?
Submitting a poorly constructed cover letter will cause you a lot of damage. Your resume will not only be ignored but also possible job interview will be out of reach.
For the last two years I have been applying for jobs through agencies without success. The only employment I have ever had has been created through my own hard work and my contacts. I really think companies no longer use agencies or just use one where they have effectively outsourced their HR function.Why pay fees when there are loads of people for every job and all fully qualified. The only reason I carry on is that it makes me feel in control and that I am doing something.It is very very hard to get work today.
Well, I don’t know if that’s going to work for me, but definitely worked for you! :) Lovely post!
Hiya! I just would like to give a huge thumbs up for the nice data you've gotten here on this post. I will likely be coming again to your weblog for extra soon.
I got to this blog from Facebook (someone posted it). After checking your article, I of course clicked Like and reshared it.
This is getting a bit more subjective, but I much prefer the Zune Marketplace. The interface is colorful, has more flair, and some cool features like 'Mixview' that let you quickly see related albums, songs, or other users related to what you're listening to. Clicking on one of those will center on that item, and another set of "neighbors" will come into view, allowing you to navigate around exploring by similar artists, songs, or users. Speaking of users, the Zune "Social" is also great fun, letting you find others with shared tastes and becoming friends with them. You then can listen to a playlist created based on an amalgamation of what all your friends are listening to, which is also enjoyable. Those concerned with privacy will be relieved to know you can prevent the public from seeing your personal listening habits if you so choose.
Dam this Blog is AWESOME. If you wrote this any better i would think you were a super human. lol nice.:)
Where can I find the cheapest electric stainless steel wall oven?i am remodeling and going with stainless steel appliances i found a fridge and dishwasher reasonable but can not find the oven at a reasonalbe cheap price. need help from the thrifty shoppers out there
I wanted to thank you for this great read!! I definitely enjoying every little bit of it I have you bookmarked to check out new stuff you post.
I cannot thank you sufficiently for the discussions on your web site. I know you set a lot of time and effort into all of them and really hope you know how much I enjoy it. I hope I could do something identical for another individual one of these days.
I enjoy reading the report, too. It′s easy to understand that a journey like this is the biggest event in ones life.