Find your calling

Yeah. it makes sense to follow up your
application with a telephone call; on
the other hand, it might produce the
opposite effect of irritating them thinking they have an added job to
have to answer the phone as well.

That was just a thought.

Best Regards,
maria esther.

I have made a call to an agent and it was like what makes you feel so important to give me a call, I have got thousands of CVs to go through..... It actually needs a lot of courage to call and not to feel disturbed irrespective of the response you get which may be unpleasant sometime.

I have to agree with the comment of born2win, I was made redundant in May and I have been shocked at the attitude of many recruitment agents, ranging from disinterest, not listening to you to rude and aggressive, and the classic not knowing much about the role or company they are recruiting on behalf of, yet want that commission for placing someone

We are all well aware how many people apply for every job being advertised, and the importance of standing out.

It is really demoralising to know how candidates are treated before even being put forward to the employer for consideration

Having said that there are some excellent professional recruitment agents out there and they are the people you want to work with

I have just secured a temporary contract which was advertised through a recruitment agent who told me I did not have the "right" experience, so I approached the employer direct, got an interview and got the job, a lost commission for that recruitment agent

I find it very interesting as my next permanent role will very likely include recruiting of staff, and my recent experiences have taught me who I will and wont deal with

David, you got the job despite calling people and harassing them rather than because of it. You must be overqualified for the job you were going for and best candidate, so they put up with your being rude and annoying. I cannot imagine anything more annoying than that - you are told in the interview when and I how THEY will get back to you, no one is asking you to call them and disrupt their work.

You got 70+ applicants, which is not much at all, even if you were not in your job advert as ambigous as employers can be and attracting everyone they shouldn't be attracting, wasting jobseekers' precious time. Or perhaps you asked people to fill in an application form, which something only either very desperate, unemployable people do, or those who aren't really applying, or someone stupid enough to spend a day filling in a single application form when they could have applied for 200 jobs in this time with their CV, which is a modern and convenient practice as no job application will give you more information than a CV, which is convenient and fast for employers and candidates, unless you want to know all the illegal stuff you needn't know - eg gender, age, marital status.

You got very few responses - normally it would be a few hundred applicants. So how do you expect the person in charge of shortlisting to respond to all those calls? Noone has any idea who you are and you would usually never to speak to the bosses that are looking to hire unless you applied to a real ****hole.

Applicants stopped calling about 20 years ago, around the same time the mass abuse, bullying and unlimited power and advantages of the employers ceased to exist and employees/jobseekers began to be viewed more like people rather than animals you can abuse as much as you want and noone can do anything about it.

Your advice would have been good in the 50's, now it would be a disaster. Unless, of course, you bump into someone like yourself, which is rare.
Recruitment techniques,especially the ones involving lengthy application forms and different stages, are in general designed by either HR people whoe need to justify their jobs for which there is no need in fact, and which are in fact all redundant roles, or by people so stupid that their stupidy makes them hire the least qualified and able to do their jobs people - reasons above - that's how we end up always with crappy people hardly able to do jobs they are hired to do and doing them to an awful standard, but managed by the same awful managers who shouldn't be in their jobs, is not put up with.

Hi again David

Just read your post again - yeah, you do have a recruitment team, so no surprise you only get only that few applicants. Timewasting, pointless HR team whose only reason for existence should be ensuring HR legislation is complied with and calculating sick leave, annual leave and redundancies, sitting there coming up with ridiculous interview questions which are in any interview help books or on any HR website and known to each jobseeker making them come up with the same text book answers and preventing you from actually getting to know person and finding out what this person IS REALLY LIKE.

Plus wasting jobseekers' time making them fill in application forms and cherry picking unemployable, lazy applicants who can't be bothered to apply for proper jobs where some consideration for them is shown and so desperate that faling to find employment anywhere else due to their inability to do this job, they are sitting there spending a week filling in your stupid application form so that you end up with this useless, unproductive burden on your shoulders.

Serves you right, with your mentality of a victorian overseer.

I found this post too true. I tell myself repeatedly to call recruiters and employers back regarding my application, and constantly shy away from it with fear of appearing pretentious. But let's face it - the bogstandard C.V is awfully pretentious (you wouldn't stand up and read out your C.V without cringing surely). It only seems apt to follow through with your C.V's self-confidence and determination with a point of human contact. I need to find the confidence to do this, but I agree one hundred percent it is a must in this increasingly competitive environment.

I understand applications can be missed, overlooked or misunderstood. Sometimes a phonecall can confirm or put you first in the queue to be looked over for a second chance / further consideration - I know this as my mother has worked for many years within recruitment.

I don't understand these comments disputing your honest advice, it's ridiculously negative of them. Might I add, if they don't have a job I can certainly understand why! Stay positive. :)

Thanks.

Hi David,
I have read your advice and I would not agree with the first two chapters of war and peace and honest advice in assisting people in general should not be ridculed in such a poor fashion. Although I would agree that there is a problem in interviews where some managers holding the meeting may feel threatened by the applicant?
I will take your advice and I have once made a phone call based on an interview - with a negative result. It will not stop me from making other phone calls.
I would like to know when is the best time - obviously I think that you must have a better than average chance of getting the position/interview, in the first place.
Should the timing be 3-5 days after initial sending of the CV or sooner and how about after the interview?

JASON

Sounds like you don't have many fans David. I always thought recruitment agents were the lowest arse licking wipes :)

David,
I really appreciate your information, and would question if the poeple who are using this page to let off steam actually HAVE a job yet.

I have made 800 job applications in 3 months, and only seem to get interviews for the application forms, primarily because I have a disability and the application forms allow me to identify this.

However, I do not only apply by application forms, indeed I would not have got so many applications out if it wasnt for copy and paste.

Some jobs I have applied for have had in excess of 500 applicants, some in excess of 80. With such a vast number of people out of work, every little civility helps, such as writing a thank you letter after the interview (this usually results in detailed feedback and offers of referrals for other positions in the company, as does a telephone call).

I would generally suggest fully reading job adverts, the amount that list fluency in another language or a specific computer programme at the end is very frustrating! Also if it is a vague advertisment, then a telephone call to clarify the requisite skills is very useful.

I would also suggest removal of higher qualifications if the role is an entry one. I would rather have a receptionist's position than not be working, and find my degree in law and six a levels a hazard when applying.

Thanks for the advice.

With regards to application form as they usually ask the same details just copy and paste, keep a database of common answers I can normally do the average application form in a hour now and sometimes they give me ideas to improve my CV.
As for phoning I just feel sorry for the Agents who get 200 phone calls in one day. Last time I tried the agent didn't have a clue who I was or what job I was applying for so waste of time.

I have to point out as a recently made redundant recruitment consultant and branch manager the massive influx of CV's for applications has increased by 400% in our particular area. The consultants really do try to contact anyone that is a good match for certain roles but they can not possibly call everyone or be expected to remember everyone personally. No one would expect the job centre to remember everyone personally or call every jobless person a couple of times a week to update them with jobs would they? Why do people expect agencies to? Agencies are not paid by the candidates, they are paid by the client so it is there priority to keep the contact and correspondence with them. If candidates paid a fee to the agencies then maybe they would have grounds to moan but give them a break its a free service to job seekers so stop expecting so much, they can not perform miricles and the market is damn tough out there for all of them, if you are a great candidate then get out there and get yourself a job and don't rely on the agencies in the first place!!

Hi Lil
I would love to rely on my own efforts to find a job but unfortunately clients are mostly signed up to recruitment agencies so they don't have the bother of sifting hundreds of applications. That means that applicants don't know who is recruiting if they don't use the agencies and cleints will not entertain an application sent on spec. By paying an agency to do this important task they are missing out on a lot of very good candidates.

Thanks for the advice.I've heard it before but I didn't listen.I'll definitely try and follow up my applications.

Hi David
I have just used your advise today and got myself an interview! I was very nervous chasing my application but it worked! They didn't feel annoyed or harassed by me calling. We had a really good chat about my experience and the role so I am feeling really confident about the interview. Wish me Luck!

I have to say I am really surprised by some of the earlier comments on the blog. They are very spiteful and it's rather transparent that they are from recruitment agencies, and missing the whole point of a blog and intelligent debate! To be honest their writing skills were so poor I didn’t understand most of it! thinking about it, it's very comical and rather embarrassing for them!

Hello All.
Having been made redundant fom a middle management role in construction, for the second time this year, I would gladly pay a recruitment consultant to represent me and not just the client.
kind regards.

Violet, I have no idea who you are or what you do but never in my life have I heard such a stream of nonsensical, unfounded, ill advised and frankly inarticulate twaddle !

Having been a recruitment specialist for seven years both as an agent and in-house I believe that David's comments are both very valid and very helpful. In times such as these, or indeed at any time, a polite follow up call can literally be the difference between an interview and missing the boat altogether. Much has been said already in this blog so I shan’t repeat it all, lest to say that there is a huge difference between a well judged follow up and harassment !

Violet - you clearly need help...these are not the rantings of a sane person.

You explained an HR team whereas David said he had a recruitment team. The 2 are very very different and its clear you have no understanding of the marked differences between HR and recruitment. Ask any recruiter worth their salt where they came from and very few will say "HR".

Having read your post I presume that you dont have a job as your command of the english language would preclude you from most positions I can think of.

As a regular reader of this blog and someone who values David's opinions (most of the time) I suggest you do one and take your inarticulate, unfounded and frankly stupid comments elsewhere and leave this blog to people who find it useful.

Good advice. Having just gone through the recruitment process myself (as the recruiter), I would have welcomed a phone call from any of the prospective candidates.

We all get busy, but that never excuses rudeness. So yes, I would have absolutely taken the time to chat through their CV or answered their questions ahead of the interview. I should be able to dedicate 5 minutes of my time to someone I may potentially employ, otherwise surely I'm limiting myself and the candidate by only half-heartedly going through the recruitment process.

In fact I gave my direct dial out to all the people I invited in for interview, it would have shown initiative if one of them called me, even just to confirm. It is easy to email, probably because it is convenient. However, a little human contact is nice, and it would have made that candidate stand out to me.

Of course, for people who are dealing with multiple candidates (i.e. a recruitment team) then this may not be the right course of action. However, if the candidate found out who the interviewer was and called them directly, then that would be proactive on their part.

True that some might find this annoying, but you can’t please everyone, all the time. It’s really a judgement call from the candidate.

David,

I went back into full time employment only two years ago (taking nearly 10 years out looking after my children) and have just been made redundant, the company closed due to the current financial climate. I have been applying for many jobs that appear to be available and doing exactly what you recommend, calling the agencies to introduce myself, hoping to give my name a voice and personality rather than just an inert piece of paper. I have had some polite responses and some just not returning my calls, but one conversation did worry me, when i was told that looking at my CV i am classed as a junior in my field due to the fact that i took time out to look after my children. I am shocked and very disappointed at this response as i feel the skills and experiences learnt whilst bringing up children and running the home are very valuable in every aspect of our lives. I feel as though i need to add my career as a 'Mother' to my CV showing all the invaluable skills i have mastered but am also concerned at the possible repercussions. Also, whilst i was at home, i went back to college to learn a trade so that i could work from home whilst still look after my children, i did not add this to my CV, as i am concerned about the cluttering with any irrelevant info, there is a fine line between selling yourself short and cluttering. Any feedback would be helpful, as this is now dishearted a normally very positive person.

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